What if 2 ?

[richard]

This one for Dominico Baggio no rush at your pace heres the situation -

1933
Hitler comes to power

1934
In March Hitler holds top level talks to discuss naval operations how to build up the navy in the following month Hitler is more in favor of the U-Boats and full production is to go ahead and or so gives the go ahead for three battle ships the reason for this Hitler wants to gain control over Europe and at the same time protect Germany's sea lanes and any captured sea lanes some time in 1940 or 1941 Hitler appoints Erich Raeder to bring up plans to protect Germany's sea lanes the seccond appointment goes to Karl Donits he is in charge of the build up of the U-Boats and operational planning for stealth operations against possible enemy naval bases

The time line is now 1935 - 1938 how do you build up the U-boat fleet and what types of U-boats you want and a plan is needed to guard German waters

You decide

[MarshalLaw]

Since Dominico has not responded and we are nearing the end of our first "what if" I figured I'd start with this one, let me think on it and I'll post in the next day or so.

[richard]

Hi MarshalLaw,

OK go ahead this one will solely be a sea scenario this one will be no change on the real events on land or the scientific breakthroughes the only deferents will be the navy and sea battles so to start with things are good for the navy up to 1942 from that point on wards production cut backs as Germany starts to loose the land war so the case is to be very aggressive and starve England out the war ? to attack America's eastern seaboard ? or just to check the British keep them at bay as long as possible then start attacking in 1943 to prevent the build up in England to even stop the D-Day landings as I said the land war as we know in history no changes but the sea war you have a free hand so the question is will the U-boats be defeated in 1943 or can you carry on with careful planing and get to May 1945 to surrender or not the history of the construction progress of u-boats will remain unchanged so for EG: you may decide to forget building the type II's in favor of type VII's and IXB's your chose any way enough of the lay out over to you

Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,
OK here we go......

Time-line 1935-1938:

Hitler gives go ahead for 3 battleships to be built. 2 are built (Bismark and Turpits) both completed in 1940. The 3rd Battleship hull is converted to a aircraft carrier based on the design of the U.S. Lexington class. Further Design is started on Naval versions of the ME109 and Stuka dive bomber. The goal by 1941 is to have a working Task force that consist of 1 carrier, 1 large battleship, 1 pocket battleship, 3 cruisers, 6 screen destroyers and 2 screening subs. (fastest available). The task force should be able to protect German sea lanes and provide great striking distance range. So for the current time line ships are under construction.

The time line for subs have the following built and be ready by Jan 1939:
10 IIA coastal Boats
50 VIIB Atlantic boats
10 IXB long range boats

In 1937-1938 Admiral Doenitz is introduced to Professor Walter, Doenitz is very interested in Walters working theories. He convinces Hitler to fully fund Walters research. Professor Walter gets to work on his prototype.

[richard]

Hi MarshalLaw,

You can carry on to Sept 1939.

I am a bit busy for the next few days should be able to get back to you next Thursday with luck or earlier looking forward to your comments catch you next week.

Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Jan. 1939 to Sept. 1939:
Construction continues on 2 large Battleships and air craft carrier. A 2nd Carrier is approved and the keel is laid in Feb. 3 Pocket battleships and one battleship are ready for combat operations by Sept.
Naval versions of the ME109 and Stuka dive bomber are completed and tested. ME109 cleared for production to begin. Stuka bomber suffers a lack of power, due to increased weight requirements for naval version. Engineers continue to work on solution.
U-boat construction continues, 68 of 70 b-boats are ready by Jan. with the last 2 ready one month later. A additional 21 u-boats are built and ready for combat operations by Sept.
2-IIA
6-IXB
13-VIIB
By Sept. 91 U-boats are ready for operations, far short of the 300 boats Admiral Doenitz had originally requested. On Sept 1st 59 u-Boats are at sea in and around Britain and France.
Professor Walters V80 research boat is nearly ready for sea trails by Sept.

[MarshalLaw]

Late summer 1939:
Admiral Readar , on the brilliant idea from a Jr. Officer, orders the conversion of 5 C2 type cargo ships to commerce raiders. These ships have increased speed, and are armed with Machine guns and 4 88MM cannons that are hidden in fake storage crates that drop down at a pull of a lever. The ships have a secret mark painted on the ship so that u-boats and other surface craft know who they are. At night their position is signaled each hour so their location is known. The raiders could fly other flags so that they can operate in enemy waters without much interference. Once attacking they would fly the German flag. Their job is to sink merchant shipping. The 5 ships are due to be combat ready by Oct.

[Dominico Baggio]

I enjoy reading what you put guys, you are much more knowledgeble then me about the deep details so i will leave it to you

I have a much more limited understanding keep it up im reading them lots

[richard]

Thanks Dominico just as a suggestion while I and MarshalLaw are doing this one see if you can think up one and the both I and MarshalLaw will take it up anyway I will leave you with that one keep reading

Hi MarshalLaw,
Just seen your comments if your lucky I will get back to you today Thursday UK time I keep forgetting your on a different time zone if not today will be tomorrow hope you had a great birthday catch you latter ;D

Richard

[richard]

Hi MarshalLaw,

OK here we go again -


Germany has started the second European war in just over two years will escalate in to the second world war.

Europe September 1939 to April 1940

Hitlers army has invaded Poland this has sparked off war with France and Great Britain and out of the Germany's three forces the Navy has been given the order put to sea and attack all French and British ships warships and merchants phase one has started fast E-Boats have carried out hit and run operations and laying mines Admiral Erich Raeder must now start work on the protection of Germany's sea lands meanwhile Admiral Karl Donitz talks to his staff it looks good for the U-Boats to start operations.

Hitler celebrates the Swift fall of Poland as the phony war starts France will welcome the B.E.F to there country both the Allies start to draw up defensive plans while the land situation has paused the Atlantic situation is very different.

England 1939
Churchill's fears of the U-Boats has become a reality again as Churchill knows what they can do knowing the events of W.W.1 The Royal Navy is put to Sea U-Boat nets are deployed to protect Scapa Flow and the scientists go to work on better U-Boat detection.

England 1940

location Bletchley Park Naval section has decoded a German code Bismark has been put to sea for trials and Turpits is very near completion Churchill now knows he has a threat to deal with and steps up British Naval Building HMS Hood has had all her wooden decking replaced for Metal and will be ready for sea in April meanwhile HMS Belfast has been struck by a Torpedo premature detonation the explosion only coursed minor damage to her propeller and puts in for repair and to add to Churchill's problems a new kind of German Mine has caused problems in the shipping lanes ships have not been sunk by this mine but have suffered strange damage.

Germany 1940

In April of that month Hitler sets the date May 12th 1940 for Case Yellow to start this of course is not much concern for Admiral Karl Donitz has he ways up the Atlantic war so far.

Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Oct.- Dec. 1939:

In Germany 5 C2 raider ships are completed and ready for combat operations. All crews speak fluent English or French. 4 ships to operate in British waters and 1 ship in French waters. Not only will the ships attack merchant shipping but will will keep tabs on convey , and surface warship movements, relaying this info back to German Naval command. C2 raiders put to sea at the end of the month.
10 days later the raiders claim their first victim. A coastal merchant from Britain. A C2 operating in the north sea radioed the merchant for assistance. Once the Merchant closed to 500 meters. the 88 guns were exposed and 3 shot fired at the merchant hitting and destroying the bridge and radio mast. in 10 mins. the merchant was sent to the bottom. A British destroyer arrived on the scene 15 mins later. the C2 radioed that a German sub had attacked. The Warship ordered the Raider to leave the area at high speed while they conduct a search for the sub. The ruse worked as the C2 steamed off to look for it's next victim. In the 3 month period each ship has sunk 3-4 ship mainly Coastal and small merchants. One French armed trawler was sunk with only 4 shots. and sunk in 3 mins time. Admiral Readar is pleased with the results so far. Valuable Intel on Convoy and warship movements have helped Donitiz's u-boats increase their sinking's.
On the sub front 59 u-boats were at sea when the war started 3 months in 60 merchants are sunk, and 5 warships including a heavy cruiser that was sunk directly by C2 raiders info. 4 U-boats are sunk in action. one destroyed by mysterious circumstances. Either a malfunction or maybe hitting a mine. Dornitz please with results so far. Uboat production continues to increase with another 25 u-boats completed by the end of Dec.
Pocket Battleships, Scharnhost, and Admiral Scheer sent into north sea area near Norway to conduct commerce raiding on merchant shipping. In 2 month period. 5 merchants sunk, Ships force back into German waters by British surface fleet. Construction continues on large battleships and carriers.

Professor Walters V80 research boat is completed and sea trails started. Boat can travel 24 knot under water!! But the fuel used for the Walter engine is very volatile and the tank takes up 2/3 of the sub. Dornitz is pleased but is concerned about the fuel and size of the tank. Professor Walters continues his research.

[richard]

Hi MarshalLaw,

Interesting so far carry on to April 1940 looking forward how you pan out the details on the German side from my comments I'm off to do some research on the Atlantic Conflict

Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,
Jan.- March 1940:

C2 raiders continue to be thorn in the side of the British and French. Valuable Intel is being supplied to German naval command on a day by day basis. Although the raider do not enter any harbors they do monitor what enters and leaves. two convoys were attacked off the Irish coast by u-boat wolf packs due to Intel supplied by the raiders. Both convoys suffered 40%-50% losses. Confirmed sinking's by the raiders have dropped off, but the Intel they provide is much more valuable. Admiral Readar orders 3 additional C2 raiders converted . Ships to be combat ready by April.
On the sub front allied merchant sinking's continue to increase. First organized wolf pack have great success, due in large part to the raiders Intel on merchant convoy movement. In 3 month period 79 merchants sunk and 2 warships, including the aircraft carrier HMS Hermes. 9 U-boats sunk in the period. 3 trying to get into the Med. through the straights of Gibraltar. Dornitz orders a u-boat base built in the sea port near Pisa Italy. Type IIA and VIIB boats to be built. No other Atlantic u-boats are ordered through the straights. In addition because of strong currents in the straights a submerge u-boat is stuck in the Med. and lost to the Atlantic war forever. Another reason to construct a base in the Med.
The German surface fleet continues to patrol German shipping lanes. 2 merchants are sunk in Feb. that ventured too close to German warship patrol areas. Battleship Bismark is completed in late March. Sea trails to begin next month. Battleship Turpits to be ready for sea trials by July. 1st air craft carrier scheduled to be completed by early fall.
On the research front a giant break through is made by 2 Jr. engineers. A new battery type has just been developed that is smaller holds a greater charge and recharges twice as fast as older battery types. The Jr. engineers approach Professor Walters with the idea of replacing the Walter engine with regular diesel engines and increase battery storage space with more of the newer type batteries. A 2nd V80 research boat is modified and tested. At full speed the boat is able maintain 17 knots for 1.5 hours with only 3.5 hours needed for recharging the nearly drained batteries. Professor Walters informs Dornitz of the break through. Dornitz is pleased and ask Walters to design a large and coastal version of the new "Electro" boat. The Professor gathers his engineering team and sets to work on the new designs.

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

April 1940:

A new and disturbing report has reached Admiral Dornitz desk. Since the beginning of the war many U-boats have suffered from faulty torpedoes that do not explode on impact or are set off prematurely. Because of this Several British warships escaped being sunk, and could be the direct cause of a few u-boat sinking's. Commander Perin one of the top u-boat aces had a one on one meeting with Dornitz and complained bitterly about the torpedo situation. Recent developments finally boiled that to the top.
On April 10th the Norway invasion was started. 30 u-boats were stationed near the landing areas to ward off any attacks from the British Navy. On April 13th a 8 ship BEF sailed for the German positions. 4 U-boats intercepted and attacked. Out of 10 torpedoes fired only 3 worked crippling one 1 ship and slightly damaging another. The Force as able to get through and inflected damage on landing craft before being driven off by the surface fleet. If the torpedoes had worked right 50% of the BEF would have been out of the fight , certainly a few capital ships sunk as well. But all escaped back to Britain.
Dornitz contacts the head of R/D of the torpedo manufacturing facility at Hamburg and demands answers and solutions to the problem. Until the situation is resolved all u-boats are ordered to switch to impact only pistols and run torpedoes shallow depths, to increase successful torpedo detonations.

[richard]

Hi MarshalLaw,

April 1940

England

location Bletchley Park Naval section has reported the German Navy has changed there codes they are now only breaking the codes one day in every Nine and of course the information is out of date and only useful has background information but there is some good news the Europe situation is getting worst and there is a recruitment drive on to increase the numbers of code breakers.

London the cabinet war room Churchill is holding a meeting with his scientific staff and the Admiralty two destroyers lost to u-boats but the biggest loss the aircraft carrier Hermes Churchill warns these losses are a drain on resources and wants improvement in Acidic detection Churchill gets up from his seat "Gentlemen as well as the u-boat threat the Germans have got two Battleships Bismark and Terpits have you seen there armaments these two ships they are a major threat if Hitler decides to use them and we may face the situation we will have to meet this threat head on" Churchill seats down.
Dr R. V. Jones now speaks a intact German mine has been found on a beach and disarmed it looks like the new secret mine the Germans have been deploying the mine is now at are research station at Portsmouth being investigated.

Churchill reads a report the Germans have lost seven E-Boats and there activity has fallen off but is concern why the Germans are doing well against convoys the report concludes the Germans may be using ships to spy on the convoys.

May 12th 1940

Europe the phony war has ended German forces are pouring in to western Europe.

May/June 1940

The situation has gone from bad to worst for the Allies the B.E.F is withdrawing to Dunkirk it looks like they will have to evacuate plans are drawn up to rescue them Churchill Knows Destroyers will be needed to aid the rescue mission and this will leave open the western sea lands to attack but there is some good news treat from German mines has been found.

Richard