Your Favourite U boat Captian

[Dominico Baggio]

I bet you can guess who mine is. Because in my opinion he fought through pretty much the hardest time of the uboat war, and proved his skills, though he was not the tonnage king.

Whos your favourite and why, and have you guessed who mine is?

No prizes im afraid

[dagamecat]

my favourite is Günther Prien, for pretty obvious reasons, really: his truly incredibly feat at Scapa Flow.

also, he looks like ever such a nice chap! ;D look!




OK I'll guess at yours: Günther Prien also!

[Dominico Baggio]

No not prien! Though he was a wicked captain. Do you have the full story of his attack at scapa? I will write it out when i have time if you dont. Very interesting OK you only get one guess aswell im afraid

[dagamecat]

yea I've got it written out in Clay Blair's excellent book: "Hitler's U-Boat War"

this book is damn heavy reading, but I thoroughly recommend it to you all, it is incredibly detailed.

OK I'll do something just a little bit illegal I'll scan that chapter in for you all to read (shush! don't tell anyone, lol . Gimme a few minutes...

[Dominico Baggio]

Cool the version i have is in The battle of the Atlantic, If they are very different i will type out excepts for you.

[dagamecat]

k lol that was harder than I expected, but here is the full text of the chapter "Prien in Scapa Flow" (it's large, sorry for slow internet users, but I wanted it to be as readable as possible):

[Dominico Baggio]

Very interesting. Right here is the other side of the story then, your version is very similar to mine actually from the prien side. So here i will type out the english point of view. Not quite as happy

The first shots have just been fired...

Most of the 1200 men crammed between the decks of the Royal Oak were asleep. Joe Instance was on the main deck, just beneath the forecastle.

I was off watch so i had what they called "all night in", and i was in my hammock when suddenly there was an enormous explosion, right up for'ard somewhere. It shook the ship from end to end. I hopped out of my hammock and went to the next bulkhead and lookad at the clock, because the day before a young seaman in the mess had said, "Oh, we're for it today, Hookie. It's Friday the 13th." And that was my first reation. What's the time? Four minutes past one.

I went back and i said, "Come on, lads, its Saturday the 14th. Now get out of your hammocks and we'll find out whats going on". They just sort of leaned over and said, "No, dont worry about it," and not one of them got out. I thought, I'm the leading hand in this mess and i think i should try and find out whats going on. I got dressed, trousers and a service jersey, and i thought the best place to go was aft where the officers were- they would know more then we would.

A torpedo had blown a hole in the starboard bow. On the flag deck the men on watch had seen a plume of water rain back on to the forecastle, but below Captain william Benn was told that the likely cause was an internal explosion in the ships inflammable store. In his judgement, there seemed little cause for immediate concern. Joe Instance recalls : "One rumour was that one of the refrigerators had blown up. Nobody considered a submarine. In fact I, along with others, thought it was a high flying bomber that had dropped a bomb somewhere rear of our bow"

Most crew remained in their hammocks. It was not considered necessary to rouse them and no special precations were taken.

then prien spins around misses again with the rear and fires the newly loaded front torps

Just ten minutes had passed since the first explosion had shaken joe instance from his sleep.

I was waiting aft, trying to dind out what was going on. And there was a small heads [toilet], and i thought, well, I'll go in here. And it was while iw as inside that the next three torpedoes hit, within ten seconds of each other. I remember saying to the chap next to me, "if we go on like this we shall be back in Portsmouth for a refit." The last torpedo set off the cordite magazine. We were just going out and this hot orange blast came up through the decks, knocked me right back into the toilet. How long it lasted i dont know, but all i could do was hide in a corner, cover my face, try and save my eyes and hope for the best.

The chap standing alongside me, all he had on was a singlet and a pair of pants and when this flame struck he went up like a match. Fortunatley I had my wooly trousers on and my service jersey, and it saved my body. I was burnt on the hands, the face, the back of the neck and all my hair had gone- but not my body. I must have fallen unconcious, i think, for about five minutes at least, and when i came to i had no idea that the ship was sinking, but i knew i had to get out.

The explosion in the magazine plunged the ship into darkness. Water flooded in through three great holes torn in the starboard side; almost at once she began to list. Most of the ships company were trapped in the groaning darkness between the decks. It was the time that Joe Instance had spent on Royal Oaks sister ship, Resolution, that saved his life.

Even in the darkness i knew where to crawl. I had to cross to the starboard side of the ship and down the starboard passage to the screen door leading to the quarter deck, which had just a blackout curtain across it. It wasnt untill i got to the door that i suddenly realised i wasnt crawling on the deck, i was crawling on the bulkhead- she was over about 60 degrees. I pulled myself out of the doorway and looked out and the quarterdeck was like a long slide. I went straight up on my backside, slid down and got caught by the guardrails, one under my throat and one under my stomach. There was only one other person i saw. That was the midshipman of the watch and he was leaning against the guardrails, with his telescope still under his arm. I remember him saying "do you think we should abandon ship sir?" I dont know who he thought i was in the dark but before i could reply everything went from under me and we both floated off.

It was clear to those watching from the conning tower of U-47 that the old battleship was finished. They had seen the shuddering impact of the torpedoes; she was rolling and soon she would be gone. Fearing that his presence had been detected, Prien gave the order to make way at half speed for Kirk sound. By 2.15 he had reached open sea and with characteristic zeal wrote "A pity that only one was destroyed"

The royal navy gave no thought to the escaping U-boat, hundreds of men were waiting to be pulled from the water. No life jackets had been issued, no lifeboats launched. From the water Joe Instance had watched the Royal Oak die: "She was over and all i could see was the great bulk of her bottom. Great spurts of water were coming up-the noise was terrific. I could hear the 15-inch shells-they wiegh about a ton and a half each- i could hear them coming out of the racks in the shell room and going boom, boom, boom as she was going over. And then she was gone, just like that." With her went 833 officers and men. It had all happened in just thirteen minutes. Joe Instance was one of the very few to escape from below decks. Now, in the water, it felt as if he was swimming in treacle; thick black oil had haemorrhaged from the Royal Oaks tanks.

In the back of my mind was, "Ive got to keep my head above water". I remember, funnily enough, my Divisional officer coming over with a great lump of wood he was hanging on to. He said, "Whos that?" And i said, "Leading seaman Joe Instance and im burnt to buggery". So he said, "oh, bad luck, old man". I must have been floating round for atleast half an hour. Then along came this little raft out of nowhere and i heard somebody say, "oh, theres one over here", and they tried to get hold of my hands to drag me on and of course my hands had been badly burnt so i screamed out, " No, no no". And the officer on the raft said, "pull him in by his hair". Well, i didnt have any hair either-that had gone. And finally they got me under the armpits and they slid me on to this raft like a wet seal. And i went out.

[dagamecat]

yea very interesting.

I haven't read that book, but I'd be interested to hear what you think of it. I think I'm right in saying that it's tied in with a BBC series called "The Battle of the Atlantic," which I watched a few years ago.

I found the TV series to be extremely biased (it annoyed me a bit, actually towards the Allies. They told lots of horror stories about what the merchant mariners went through (which, of course, is correct), but hardly anything on the horrors of being a victim in a u-boat.

although, that's pretty much what I'd expect from the BBC, totally establishment. mustn't be seen to be giving any sympathy whatsoever to those "evil nazis."

ahem, as you can see I'm a cynic so what's the book like?

[Dominico Baggio]

Hahah no i dont think its biased, but then im an ally so i could be biased

It refutes claims that the germans shot up innocent sailors, shows how kind they were in most cases and doesnt villify them. In fact it does the opposite in my mind, shows how human they were (especially in the laconia incident in which the Americans are more vilified for bombing the uboat with a red cross draped on it).

I disagree with you about the series too, the bbc usually pretty neutral except recently with the war, but the idiot in charge then has been kicked out. I thought it was an excellent well balanced series.

Only one case where they machine gunned survivors is described and shown to be extreme.

I think the reason there is less care for the pain uboat men went through is because they were soldiers paid to fight and kill, destroying mainly unarmed men.
Also merchant seamen were not combatants, and were paid only small amounts, and shockingly their pay ended the exact minute their ships were sunk.

All in all i think they are more deserving of our sorrow, though of course not to say uboat men dont deserve it.

It is an excellent book i think, and draws on all aspects from civilian life and the effect the uboat war had and scientific breakthroughs like enigma and radar and life onboard warships, merchants and uboat life. Very good read!! If you enjoy the above piece i would recommend it. Its not afraid to even criticise the allies in parts for their slackness, Operation Drumbeat for example. It could be seen to sing the praises of the British a bit at times but in my opinion its not undeserved lol!

[Dominico Baggio]

Well guessing didnt happen so i will tell you. Its... **drumroll**

Eric Topp of course!

[dagamecat]

oh! he was going to be my next guess, but you only allowed me one!