What If 3

[richard]

Background Information

1934-1939

Germany has put long term research as a top priority and create new weapons and delete older weapons the result of this has speeded up German progress.

1940-1943

The German Army gets off to a great start but by 1943 the situation is in the balance it is at this time the new weapons start to come in to service.

The Army
Tanks
Panzer VI AUSF B King Tiger
Panzer V Panther II with the new 8.8cm Gun
STUG III AUSF H with the new 8.8cm Gun

The Navy
U-Boat Type XXI & Type IV and V Torpedo's

The Air force
ME262 Jet Fighter
HE-162 Jet Fighter (In smaller numbers)
AR234 Jet Bomber

The new weapons have helped to slow the Russians down. And in the sky the Allies take a real beating the one Allie plane that for the moment is out of range due to the height it bombs at is the B29 but the problem is theres a good 80% target miss but never the less they are bombing around the clock from late 1943 on wards.

1944

D-Day landings cost the Allies a heavy cost they were close to withdrawing but just hung on in the months of June and July. Finally breaking out in Brittany and driving south but to late to over run the U-Boat Bases all the U-Boats and equipment were withdrawn in late May. The situation becomes a deadlock which suites Hitler who wants to pay the Russians back for the Defeat at Kursk in 1943. The German Army in the west has bottled up the Allies in Normandy and western France and Southern France. The Situation in Italy has been a total deadlock since late 1943 on the Gothic Line.

Eastern Front
The Front Line runs from Estonia moving downwards and westwards to Vitebsk south to Kiev finally south to Odessa. A situation in the north has come about and Hitler wants a major attack to trap 22 Divisions. The Germans are out numbered but have better weapons and more are on the way.

August 1944

Germany's new weapons

Tanks
The Maus and E-100 Super Heavy Weight Tanks (These Tanks are sent to the Western Front powerful Defensive tanks)
Panzer VI AUSF B1 King Tiger with the new 10.0cm Gun
Panzer V Panther IIA with the new 9.2cm Gun
STUG III AUSF H1 with the new 9.0cm Gun

The Air force
Arado TEW16/43-23 Jet Fighter
BF109H Jet Fighter
Horten HOIXB

The Deadly Powerful Jet Fighter
FW-TA183

The Navy
No new U-Boats but a Prototype VI Torpedo

Enough of the new Weapons are made to slow down the Allies but the turn out is slow the chance of now winning the war very poor but it will drag the war out to 1946 or even 1947.

The Allies have now deployed there Jet Aircraft the British Vampire and the American P60.

September 1944

German forces still able to slow down or even stop the Allies but there is a problem Germany has better Weapons but they are being out numbered on all fronts will Germany sue for peace on there terms or fight on. Will the Allies do the same bring about peace or fight on the cost of victory will be heavy.


Richard

(Over to you MarshalLaw)

[richard]

Hi, MarshalLaw

Update for September 1944

Germany

Large number's of V1's are fired at the Allie forces in western France which is causing problems. The U.S.A.A.F has 25 P60's in western France and they are dispatched to deal with the V1's.

Holland

24 V2'S are fired that month and fall on Leningrad and the surrounding area.

Poland

At a secret location the second test is under way on the new V3 which is twice as powerful as the V2 its planned to enter service by the spring of 1945.

Russia

The 9th Soviet tank army strikes south of Kiev they run in the 2nd SS Panzer Division and the 44th and 12th Panzer Divisions. In the first three hours the Soviets loose 106 tanks the Germans loose 31. The Soviets withdraw and regroup to attack again latter in the month.

Late September 1944

Due to the Allie bombing production is being moved underground at the moment only 35% is underground and by the end of the year it is predicted to be 78% and by spring 1945 hopefully 100% hopefully.



Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Need a little more background info before I can start.

1. What is Japans, and Italy's role, has Germany supplied them with the advanced weapons or are they following the historical account?
2. We focusing Global on this or will we focus more in a certain area (like we did in "what if 2)

Let me know then I'll get started. ;D

[richard]

Hi, MarshalLaw

Europe Only and the Italian forces have collapsed its like the real events but with the twist Germany has got much further than the Allies in the research on new weapons and they got rid of weapons that have run there course stopped building them in favor of newer weapons say for EG the Panzer 3 was well out of date by 1942 but as we know it remain in service this What If removes the out of date tank and plays no further role in the war and so on with all other weapons hope that helps.

The Situation is Germany has better and more powerful weapons but due to production being slow and the weapons spread to fin on all fronts but they are able to inflict heavy lose and stall or even stop the Allies. From the Allies point they have just caught up on Jet Planes but nothing else yet but they do out number the German Forces.

This idea came about when Hitler made a bad decision in 1940 when he cut back on research believing that he had almost won the war and would knock Russia out by 1942. German scientists were more ahead of the Allies up to 1940 this fateful decision was one of the reasons of Germany's downfall. So this situation What If Germany kept going on with the research and put more money in to it.

PS The Bomb plot has not taken place yet but there are those in the Army who can see the tide is turning. There is time to save Germany but when do they make there move the situation is Germany could start talking and may bring the war to an end but Hitler wants to be Master of Europe peace at a price.


Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Understand what you are trying to convey with this one. However for background info, it's important to know what Japan has. With historical accounts Germany shared with Japan their Jet aircraft technology. If this is the case, then Japan would have received the information much earlier than late 1944 early 1945 like they did for real. For this What if, we would need to assume that Japan was able to produce Japanese Jet aircraft at least 1 year earlier which would have slowed the American progress in the Pacific.
During the war America devoted 60% of their resources to the Pacific theater. with the remainder going to Europe. What I'm getting at is America in this scenario may not be able to put the full 40% into Europe due to increased resistance in the Pacific. I see it mainly affecting the American air forces in Europe. You agree?

[richard]

Hi, MarshalLaw

Lets say a Jap sub docked at a German Naval Base to pick up secret research information in 1943 but it never made it back to Japan sunk by American Destroyers. Hitler becomes far to busy on the home front so the out come no change on the Pacific Front.

Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

OK Background is complete. I'll get started with this new one sometime over the weekend.

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Oct. 1944:

On the Western front 26 of the new TA-183 swept wing jet fighters go operational and are tasked to attacking the B-29 's attacking German industry. On Oct 12th the first encounter for the Allied bombers is not a pleasant one. 15 TA-183's shoot down 36 B-29's out of a flight of 86. No jet aircraft are lost. 2 have damage but are able to land back at base. American Air command is shocked at the new jets ability to climb and it's speed. Lines are stable on the ground , no major movement during the month. New generation tanks are shipped to the front lines in small numbers.

On the Eastern front the Soviets launch their 2nd attack near Kiev. Several new generation Tiger and Panther tanks are deployed in time for the attack and the Soviets pay a higher price than before. 126 T-34's are destroyed to 24 German tank losses. Only 1 new Tiger tank is destroyed. To the horror of soviet tank commanders, the shells fired at the new German tanks only bounce off causing little to no damage, however the larger German tank guns have no problem shredding the T-34's armor. The Soviet's are pushed back to the out skirts of Kiev. In the north the opportunity to trap 22 Soviet divisions never materializes, the Soviets are able to redeploy and reinforce to fill the gap. Army group North abandons the attack plan.

In the Atlantic XXI u-boats are sinking Merchants at a good rate in the western approaches, North Sea and Arctic regions. The new type IV and Type V torpedoes are having good results. Also the new FuMo 83 Radar is reducing the Allies ability to attack from the air, as the u-boats are detecting the aircraft and diving to safety long before the the aircraft can attack. The Allies loose 26 merchants and 2 warships during the month.

In Italy the Allies are stopped cold on the Gothic line, V1 attacks along with improved German arterity are causing heavy losses for the allies. Allied bombing is helping but the Germans are very well dug in, and German ME-262 and HE-162 Jet aircraft control the skies over the Gothic line making bombing raids difficult and costly.

On the research front the new V3 rocket is ready for testing. A air base near Brest is selected as a test target, which houses the new P-60 fighters. The V3 packs a larger warhead and improved guidance system that is accurate within 1 KM. On Oct 25th 2 V3's are fired at the base in a 2 day period. The 1st hits on the outskirts of the base damaging the end of 2 runways. The 2nd rocket hits within the base area destroying a row of hangers . It is learned a week later that 11 aircraft were destroyed in the hangers including 7 P-60 fighters. 2 more test are to scheduled for next month before production starts.

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Late Oct. 1944:

Breaking News out of America. The US congress has gone into emergency session, to discuss US involvement in Europe. A great American back lash has started demanding the withdraw of American forces from Europe, because of the stalemate situation that has developed in France. Most of the Military wants to focus entirely on Japan to bring a victory by summer of 1945. Plus American Military leaders are fearful that Germany may share it's Jet aircraft technology with Japan, which could drag the war out in the Pacific for several more years. Churchill hears of the news and is deeply distressed. He calls Roosevelt to plead his case, Roosevelt tells him the situation may be out of his hands, due to very strong American public opinion.

[Richard Forgot my Password]

Hi, MarshalLaw

Nice start and I like the Twist.

[richard]

Hi, MarshalLaw

The Allies England & America October 1944

The Atlantic

The Situation is bad and just got worst the U-Boat Enigma Machines are now fitted with a four drum setting the result of this has locked out the Allies knowing the wolf pack locations. Progress is slow by the Allies the only thing they can do is to start making much faster boats which of course will be bigger there is some good news a new decoy is ready which will draw off Type IV & V Torpedo's but the decoys for the moment only last about 45 seconds making it hard when to deploy the decoys at the right time. But for the Moment it will have to do the situation against Type VII U-Boats is a little better the Allies can hunt them down if spotted but there is a much bigger problem the Type XXI U-Boats there is no solution against them yet but there is a standing order to capture one of these boats has very high priority.

Normandy November - December 1944

The Allies attempt to take a vital hill over looking Caen in a two prong attack but after the first hour the attack is called off 55 Sherman's destroyed and 21 British Firefly's or so destroyed. The Germans have deployed 4 Mause tanks and in there first action they have proved there worth. As for the Allies they are stuck for answers and start to dig in for the winter months.

The Allies England & America the political situation October to December 1944

The American population is getting fed up with the dead lock in Europe some even call for peace talks with Hitler others go further pull out of Europe and let them rot. The President takes a hard decision in November and decides we must fight on and starts to use propaganda on the American public putting the fear in to them America could be hit by long range rockets from Germany and a possible invasion within ten years. By the end of the year the situation is under control but they need good news for 1945 meanwhile in England Churchill feels a little better.

Italy

The Gothic Line November - December 1944

The situation has become total dead lock the Allies can not advance with out coming under massive air attack a new plan of action is needed. The Germans have not had it all there way as two tank divisions have been move to boaster the southern sector in southern France this is not what the army on the Gothic Line wanted and for now its only control of the Sky's which has prevented a Allie breakthrough.

Russia November - December 1944

The Soviet Army has been checked along the whole front and as the worst winter sets in with temperatures falling to -50 both sides are stuck until spring 1945.

Germany November 1944

In the weapons research secret location a problem has been reported by the Luftwaffe the new ME109H Jet Fighter has a structure problem cracks have appeared on the wings and in three cases the wings ripped off. The decision is taken to ground the ME109H and reinforce the wings and then to under go major new testing its hope the problem to be sorted out by spring 1945.

England early December 1944

The Allies meet to way up the situation and to try and get them selfs out of this mess before facing a situation suing for peace with Germany but the Russians see that as a vile gutless act and want no part of it. This remark by the Russians makes the British and Americans to sit down and have a big rethink.

Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Nov - Dec. 1944:

In the Atlantic XXI u-boats enjoy success against allied merchant shipping. 42 Merchants and 4 destroyers are sunk during the period. 6 VII and 2 IX series u-boats are sunk during the period in all operational areas. Weather turns bad the last week of Dec. hampering operations on both sides.

In Italy the stalemate continues. The Allies have tried 2 offensives during the period both stopped cold after only 1-2 days. The Allies were forced both times to retreat back to their original lines. Heavy losses to allied Men and equipment were suffered during both assaults. In Nov, 2 squadrons of ME-262 fighters are deployed to the region to boast air superiority.

On the Eastern front both sides are starting to dig in for the winter as temp. reach record low levels. A few light skirmishes is all that is reported during the period, due to aircraft being grounded and equipment almost useless due to the cold.

On the Western front , both sides are starting to dig in as well for the winter. German rocket command has targeted allied air bases with V1 and V2 rockets with limited success. B-29 raids over Germany have slowed to a crawl, due to heavy losses from German TA-183 aircraft. The Allies attempted a breakout near Caen in Nov. But the advance was stopped after the first day. Allied forces continue to be bottled up.

In America, the firestorm of public opinion is finally calmed in Dec. However if the stalemate continues in Europe, or Japan introduces new advanced weapons, the calm could change overnight. American Air force leaders decide to withdraw 1/3 of the B-29 force from Europe and redeploy in the Pacific to step up the air war against Japan's industry. Churchill is not pleased , but there is little he can do about it. He realizes that America could be out of Europe all together by spring if the situation does not improve. In late Dec. president Roosevelt's heath takes a turn for the worst. He still able to run the country but his advisor's are having to make more of the day to day decisions for him.

On the research front, the 2nd testing of the V3 rocket is successful. Production is to start in late Dec. Type IV and V torpedoes are being redesigned to counter the Allied decoys that u-boat commanders have reported.

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Mid Dec. Naval traffic control center Pearl Harbor:

US Naval code breakers report the terms "Kugisho" and the term "Kikka " used in several Japanese transmissions over the past few days. Code breakers are trying to determine what the terms mean.

[richard]

Hi, MarshalLaw

January-February 1945

The Situation in Normandy and Western along with Southern France

Total deadlock but the Allies are planing a number of operations for the spring as a steady flow of supplies are bought in a the build up is under way in secret locations and under cover to avoid the Luftwaffe.

Italy

The Allies have changed tactics a number of Warships have shelled German positions and are well protected with air cover along with the fact Italians have no radar. Even now the Germans are fed up with the deadlock and there is some bad news there supplies have been reduced to 58% for the next four months the reason they are needed in Russia. The biting cold and frost has been a real pain to both sides.

Russia

German army build up west of Kiev the Soviets are also building up for a spring operation. The Luftwaffe on a rare day were able to send up re-con planes they have spotted large formations of tanks total count for the end of February 4,000+ as for the German side by the end of February 2,972.

Germany

In Late February the largest bomber raid over Germany has taken place the Allies have used Window and blinded German radar total number of bombers 1,200. Before the B-29 cut backs a new bomb was created by the Allies 10,000KG bomb which the B-29's could carry the attack was a success only 172 aircraft were lost. German production has fallen. Meanwhile a group of German Army Officers have met they are worried about the war and plan to force Hitler to step down but how is the question.


Richard

[MarshalLaw]

Hey Richard,

Jan. - Feb. 1945:

On the eastern front both side are dug in and waiting for the bitter winter to pass. Meanwhile more men and material are pouring into the Kiev region . Soviets are massing men and material for a assault soon. German re-con has spotted a huge build up. Several V1 and AR-234 bomber attacks are launched against the soviet buildup at the end of Feb. Damage is done but because of bad weather grounding aircraft once again, it is unclear how much damage was done.

On the Western front all is quiet, the allies continue to bring in supplies for a possible breakout in the spring. So far the Germans are unable to find the staging areas.

In Italy the allies have brought in Battleships and cruisers to shell positions on the Gothic line. German supplies are in short supply as the majority is going to the Kiev region for the continued German build up. In a daring move in Mid Feb. a flight of Condor bombers escorted by ME-262 & HE-162 fighters attack the allied fleet, to break the shelling. The attack is able to drive off the allies. However the Germans loose 50% of their bombers and 10% of their fighters. The Aircraft were able to sink a battleship and 2 cruisers. several other ships were hit and damaged. The Allied fleet heads back to port for repairs.

In the Atlantic a quiet period as well as bad weather hampers operations on and off. 3 u-boats are sunk and 9 merchants and 1 warship during the period. In early Feb. A few u-boat commanders report increased ship traffic and activity around the sea ports of Plymouth and Portsmouth. Info is relayed back to German Naval command, who in turn give the info to German High command.

In America Roosevelt's health has stabilized but he is still weak. Code breakers in the Pacific continue to receive radio traffic in reference to the 2 mystery terms. code breakers are still trying to figure out if it is a reference to a operation or something else. Something is up and will be happening soon.

In Germany a late Feb. bombing raid has done damage to German industry, output is reduced by 15%. Most industry is now underground or in bomb resistant shelters. In Mid Feb. a small group of German officers meet in private. they are concerned about the long stalemate on all fronts for over 6 months. Long term they feel Germany will lose the war. Some think surrender is the option to take, others believe a peace should be brokered.. regardless something needs to be done. They decide to meet again in late spring and in the meantime talk with higher ranking officers and generals to get their opinions. Then look at the situation once again and decide on a coarse of action.