Manual TDC

[bsalyers]

I have been looking for good, detailed instructions on manual torpedo targeting. I have tried the instructions in the game manual and think I followed them closely, but I have yet to hit a target. I have no idea whether I'm wrong or just unlucky.

Has anyone had good luck with computing their own solutions?
Thanks!

[Dominico Baggio]

I can usually hit at 500-1500 range, but beyond that you will be very lucky (or skilled) if you get a hit, they only have to slow a bit or change course and you will miss.

Yesterday i did a 2500 shot at an oil tanker, i guessed he would speed up, so calculated and then moved a degree infront of him. I watched the torpedo with the camera caus i was so interested if i would get him or not. Well it went just infront of him lol I was so gutted.

If i had just gone with my first calculations i would have got a super distance hit. But to be honest against small ships its very hard to get long range hits. They are reserved for battleships massive cargo ships ect, where a 100 metre miscalculation can still get a hit.

If i have time i will do a quick run through of TDC, if someone else who is really good at it would like to do one that would be great too. Since i have crew management and Escape and evasion to do next lol!!

Uhhh right now im a bit hung over, just got back from a night out so nothing now for sure!


For now the best way to learn is in the torpedo mission, and keep on the cameras. Watch your shots and see how much you miss by. You might be able to figure out from that what you are doing wrong.

[Shockwave74]

I believe you should work on a guide for manual TDC since your navigation guide is so good

I have 75% hits with WE assistance and only 20% hits with manual TDC. There has to be something wrong in my technique i guess.

Here's what i generally do :

1) Acquire target on sensor, first round of data acquired.
(rough estimate of range, speed and AOB)
2) target approach, closing, second round of data acquired.
(more precise estimate, confirm on 1st round of data)
3) final approach, slow down speed to match the target speed, ensuring data i enter this time will be the last ones and won't be changing till i fire the torpedo.
Insert torpedo data : speed, detonation type, depth, solo-multi torpedo and their fan angle.

4) Solution ready, match gyro angle with current bearing and open tube(s)

5) Fire torpedo

6 miss

Anybody has a guide or a vid about this?

[Shockwave74]

I have to tell at this point that i play 100% realism, therefore i can't see where my torpedo goes, or if it hits and doesn't detonate...all i know is that with manual TDC my % of success are really little.

A guide for this procedure would be so cool...especially since the manual is providing very little infos on how to do it proficiently.
I have many doubts about the procedure. I hope you guys can help.

Baggio, i found your nav guide too late...had been taking speed timings and distances with calculator and stopwatch...here this may help you :

5Km at 3kts in 52 min
5Km at 4kts in 40 min
5Km at 5kts in 30 min
5km at 7kts in 22 min

They are not precise but still better than nothing. Its the ones i use to popout at 90° from a target the uboat command reported hours and hours before

BTW since you have a fansite, why don't you host a Realism mod team? The official forums are a mess to follow, they are just good to recruit and nothing else.

If we could change the range at which the WO spots targets, especially at night, and remove the problem of the crosshair becoming red when u aim to a target that would be a major achievement. Have u tried experimenting with files?

[xpert11]

Dumb question when using manual TDC can you still get the weapons officer to come up with the firing soulation?

[Stryker]

I'm gonna give this a try, not sure if it will help..

In this game you have to remember that you the player are having to do the job of 2 people so it gets a bit tricky..

Once a target is spotted, using the attack scope or the uzo .. take the bearing, range, and AOB (angle on bow) readings..

quickly hit your f-6 to bring up the TDC / attack map..

click the little button to the center right to change it to manual (at 100% realism its already there) using your dials set the range bearing and abo..

zoom your map down to where you can now see your sub and the target as lines NOT the squares with tails..

you will notice a green line from the bow of you sub reaching toward the target and a number at the end, this is the time the torpedo will take to reach this point.. if you change the speed of the torpedo you will notice that it changes..

NOTE: the AOB is not the angle that the torpedo will hit, it's the angle of relation of the subs bow to the bow of the target..

as you change your speed and direction you will notice the green line change in relation to the target, you don't have to be sitting at 90 degrees to the target for a good shot BUT you must have the proper AOB.. if you run the same direction and close to spped of the target you will notice your green line (torpedo path) will leave your bow then turn 90 degrees and head for the target.. this will get you a kill unless he changes course..

on a long range shot 2000+ extend your green line to the target (range will lengthen it, bearing will move it left or right) place the line at the bow and watch how fast the target takes to get its stern across the line..
(now its best guess as to how far to lead the target to get a hit unless you are one of those math wizards who want to actually figure out the calculations) the more you do it the better guess you will make..

NOW .. if any of this made sense .. goto your naval academy, hit torpedo training, goto your TDC, and practice on the close coastal and the C2 til you get the hang of it..

hope this helps some

[Shockwave74]

I did go to the academy but only now iim reading the post.

I took down 3 ships with 3 torpedoes...but clearly the sea conditions helped.

I believe the problem of manual tdc is the time it takes you to build all data into the firing solution. Thereupon time has passed, and the situation has changed.

Now, when we hit the V on the scratchpad, the data we acquired gets into the TDC. *then* it's time to compensate manually.
(if this doesn't happen at 100% realism then i know why i miss so often...please confirm. When u hit the V on scratchpad, those data go to the tdc or do u have to put them in manually just like you manually did with uzo-periscope?

At 100% realism, the TDC is completely empty. U only see the green torpedo course line and the time it will take to reach the target. Nothing else. The only usable things are the instrument dials (torpedo settings). The same goes for the nav map. Completely empty. Even a "locked" target is not appearing. Too bad but actually it's ok with me, it shouldn't be on either map on 100% realism.

So at this point i have some questions:
1) data on scratchpad at 100% realism goes to TDC when we hit V or after that we need to manually input (or ask the WE to do it -> solution on map)
2) After locking i am on the middle of the ship. Sideshot would call for a LEAD on the target especially in case of fast movers. Are you saying i should move the sensor towards the bow of the ship so i am leading the target? Is that what you mean by looking how much it will take the ship to go from bow to stern on my bearing sensor?
3) What relationship is there between the gyro angle indicator (below the tubes status indicator) and my bearing? I have noticed these 2 do not correspond.

Note : I am not going to put the event or external view just to check...it's too unreal. The thrill i have with looking at that chronometer and cross fingers is unpayable!

[Stryker]

first off let me say if you actually play at 100% realism, you will bored and tired of the game quickly, very few ships will be sunk, and aggravations levels will rise faster than a North Atlantic storm ...

yes you have to set it manually, but like I said its a two people job, one to look thru scope and one to set dials, extremely hard in a one player game .. you look get readings, change screens put readings in, go back to look, theyve changed .. repeat step 1 etc etc

gyro angle is for the torpedo it tells it when to and which direction to change course after leaving the tube, bearing is which direction the target is heading in relation to your bow

[bsalyers]

Something I noticed that may be helpful is that you can still put data into the scratch pad while the game is paused. I tried using this to offset my noob disadvantage. I would site the ship, bring up the scratch pad, hit "pause" and open the ship ID manual. After I had an ID, I would unpause and go to range. I would use the same technique to find range and AOB. Otherwise, my input is so slow and unpracticed that the data is useless by the time I have it set. Even so, I have yet to achieve a manual hit.
A detailed video of a successful attack would be ideal. There was supposedly one posted at SubSim, but I found the link to be dead.
This game screams out for a detailed, thick, well-written 3rd party manual.

[Shockie the uncookied guest]

Yes at 100% realism it is very hard. After a full patrol on the way back i met this c2 cargo. I chased him for a little then head off parallel from 1 km distance and surpassed it. It was getting dark but i had already id the ship positively and id confirmed it was hostile.

I went ahead to ambush, therefore stopped and saw it coming on the uzo. I did the procedure 4 times and launched 2 torpedoes in fast sequence when i had all calculations clear. I was at 900mt completely halted in very hard seas.

1 Torpedo missed the shot, the other one exploded under the back of the keel.

The C2 was sinking already, i enjoyed it a lot. I was out of diesel so i chose to sink it immediately with a third, impact, torpedo and i hit it on the prow.

See the good thing about 100% real which will *never* bore me, is the fact that i DIDNT put the new speed of the C2 in the TDC (the ship had been hit and its speed dramatically reduced) and that's why i hit it in the prow...still a hit.

2 minutes late the ship sunk and i went back to base.

100% realism u got to really :
1) good estimation of range (sonarman if possible)
2) good estimation of AOB (shoot from 90° or guess right, alternatively, do like me, go parallel and then rush ahead to prepare an ambush)
3) you must be sure that your data is reliable before shooting. Situation mustn't have changed from the moment u took the calculations to the moment you fire, and it shouldn't change AFTER you fired either.

That's the difficult thing, these things must be done manually, accurately, and rapidly.

SH3: I love this game

[Nabeshin]

The hardest part is getting the AOB, the rest is prety easy.

Best shots are had by getting in front of the convoy and waiting for the AOB to become 90 port or aft.

Something i did notice is that getting the speed does not seem to be accurate. I'm not sure if it is based on the others that you put in or not. That may have an effect.

Generally i make solution myself on close ships and if they are very far away i just make my WO do it. I'm the captain, let me delegate

[Shockwave74]

Easy busy :

Range has effect on speed of the ship u are targeting. It's maths

If range is unaccurate so will be the speed. And mind that if you are charging full flank speed on a ship, while timing for the speed, the result will never be precise but if you are lucky, just very close. This is because after 15 seconds, your range will be outdated therefore the speed result is inaccurate as well.

Manual TDC is very hard...it's a procedure where everything must be precise. As close as possible to the real thing.

Don't change heading, don't change speed, don't change distance to target, don't make the target change it's course (it means dont let them spot you ) while you are making calculations.

Do calculations, then fire. That's what you need to do. If you calculate, then don't shoot immediately....it's high chances to miss

[Muto]

Although I've only spent 7 or 8 hours familiarizing myself with SHIII and haven't tried 100% realism settings, which is what I will use when I begin a career, I think I know how I will do it...

Actually, I really wish this sim incorporated a U.S. Navy submarine command career ... the U.S. Navy was the only Navy in WW2 that used an analog torpedo data computer which tracked the target's data constantly and updated the firing solution, making a U.S. submariner's job much easier...

My understanding of the way Japanese, German and British sub crews did it was to plot a firing solution well in advance, based on where they planned to fire and where the target planned to be, then they simply maneuvered to achieve this firing solution.

So, I intend to find my target visually, plot its course and speed, and then navigate to be in a position 500-1000 meters off its starboard or port bow with 5 minutes to spare before the ship enters my 'kill zone'. While I navigate to that position, I will compute firing solutions for 3 ranges and torp speeds set to fast: 500, 750, and 1000 meters with an AOB of 90 degrees and a gyro setting of 000, so it is a matter of simple trigonometry. As I approach my kill zone, I will submerge to periscope depth, turn the sub to point perpendicular to the target's expected path, check the gramophone to confirm the target is bearing 310-320 degrees with bearing increasing (if my position is to its starboard, i.e. so the target ismoving across the bow), then go to attack scope and begin tracking the target. I will verify range and confirm my Gyro is 000 or close to it. Then I will choose which of my three firing solutions to use based on actual range. I will fire at the designated time, then ahead slow and turn 2 degrees to starboard, and fire a second fish 10 seconds later. Then turn away to 150 degrees (or 210 degrees, if on its port side) of bearing from target, ahead full and surface.

Then get ready for round 2...

[Dominico Baggio]

Yeah muto i actually just thought i "accidently" do this style many times.

Sometimes when an enemy is zigging ect i set his speed in, set angle of bow at 90 and then set 400 metres in as distance, then just manouver into place and fire. I suppose this is how the British did it though i wasnt trying to do it there way lol. Its cool how when games are so realistic you often "accidently" use tactics and methods they used in real life without even knowing about them sometimes.

Another thing i do is go inbetween the shetlands (the islands just above scapa flo) and scapa when going round Britain just to shorten the distance a little. I was reading the other day and found this is the actual route uboats took lol. British used to send out armed trawlers to try to close this gap and force them round.
Very cool

ps shockwave just saw your post about the realism mod, i offered for the use of these forums but the guys doing them wanted to keep it in their own forums. Many times with these things they become very protective and dont want others involved lol. So i didnt bother again. A mod has been made though, but the link doesnt work as of yet.

[Muto]

Yes, it's logic really. The world's best at anything get there by reducing the number of variables that can influence the outcome of whatever it is they're doing. Golfers, skeetshooters, etc. How many Greens-in-Regulation would Tiger Woods hit if both the green and the teebox were moving at different speeds and different directions every time he teed it up? How dramatically would championship skeetshooters percentage rate drop if they were shooting at skeet from a moving vehicle? Everything their brains have memorized to make them great goes right out the window because a new set of variables has been introduced.

Firing torpedoes at ships is no different. Rather than computing a firing solution and then trying to 'eyeball' an adjustment based on the movement of your sub and your target since the calculation was made, plot a firing solution that you know can't miss, and then spend your time and skill as a sub captain maneuvering to that position to make it a mathematical certainty.

The kill rate should go up significantly.

If Destroyers prevent that from happening quickly, develop your skills and guile in outmaneuvering and evading the dreaded ASIC to patiently achieve your desired position. In any case, I'm guessing it's much more exciting and fun, and much less frustrating, to spend time outwitting the enemy and getting to a position where you know you will score than it is to fruitlessly salvo 3 out of every 4 fish into the deep blue sea because every time you fire is a different situation.

Navigating is easier than calculating dynamic firing solutions. So master just 5 or 6 static firing solutions, and spend the rest of your time on the easy part to achieve those solutions.